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Curved Screen Built, Need Projectors!!!
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jskibo



Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 77
Location: Florence, KY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought on the screen material.

This was posted on the nthusim board a few days ago:

http://stores.ebay.com/protheater

54" by the linear foot: http://cgi.ebay.com/DLP-LCD-CRT-MOVIE-PROJECTION-PROJECTOR-SCREEN-MATERIAL-/280530572492
63" by the linear foot: http://cgi.ebay.com/LCD-DLP-CRT-MOVIE-PROJECTION-PROJECTOR-SCREEN-MATERIAL-/300443822419
72" by the linear foot: http://cgi.ebay.com/LCD-DLP-CRT-MOVIE-PROJECTION-PROJECTOR-SCREEN-MATERIAL-/300443823151
84" by the linear foot: http://cgi.ebay.com/LCD-DLP-CRT-MOVIE-PROJECTION-PROJECTOR-SCREEN-MATERIAL-/280530624730

Seems like a decent price for a large piece of continuous material

Not my link (remove if not appropriate)
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mauriceb



Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 1051
Location: Gravenhurst, Ontario - Canada

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure why the images I posted are disappearing. I see them once when I post them and the next time I look they are gone. Is that happening because the source of the pics is in Webshots?

Thanks,
Maurice
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jskibo



Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 77
Location: Florence, KY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mauriceb wrote:
Not sure why the images I posted are disappearing. I see them once when I post them and the next time I look they are gone. Is that happening because the source of the pics is in Webshots?

Thanks,
Maurice


I get this if I try to load them by clicking:

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /182/0/73/1/2208073010051510320zbPmVt_fs.jpg on this server.
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mauriceb



Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 1051
Location: Gravenhurst, Ontario - Canada

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really weird. I see them for a short while after I post and then they disappear. Will try different links now.











Let's see if this works. I did not want a link to another website but for now, it seems the only way I can show the pics for some reason.

Maurice
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XOrionFE



Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 56
Location: Sugar Grove, IL USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking good Maurice!

Scott
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bluskydriver



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:19 am    Post subject: Thank you for helping me... Reply with quote

Thank you for posting the images and data about your screens, as it has helped me to figure out what to do...

I've been working with the projectors and the TripleHead2Go Digital settings in the Matrox Software, Win7 display properties and FSX display settings.

Scott, can you post what settings you're using in all three? Can you give me the resolution values?

What I have so far, is that FSX works in window mode, but in full screen it disappears to the bottom of the screen. Not like minimize, but a weird narrow band going across all three projector images, as if I scaled to this narrow band. I cannot change anything about it, but when I go back to window mode, all is fine.

Once I get your settings, that should help out. Afterwards, I'll still have to get them mounted properly, and then setup NTHUSIM. Oh, so much to do...

Trying to get three things done at once:

1. Get projectors setup and mounted
2. Get screen changed
3. Finish getting electrical wiring done-having 100AMP sub-panel added.

Speaking of that sub-panel addition. OMG! The rules have changed with the US NEC and Wisconsin codes that now you have to use AFIC Circuit Breakers. They cost $40 each! Multiply that by 12! $480 just for those. At first, I thought it'd be about $100 for the standard breakers, in which it was, but with the new code changes, there goes another $380 not going into the sim itself.

Oh, the irony. I'd rather have that money spent on the new CDU's from FDS. However, it just sets me back a while. I'll get them sooner or later.

Finally, I just wanted to add this tidbit. I added up all the items in this room and I figured 65AMPs if everything is turned on all together. Alhtough, this includes non-sim items, but the projectors added another 3.1 AMPs each; that's 9.3 AMPs more. So, almost 70 AMPs.

Did you know that you're only allowed to run 80% of the total available amperage. At 100AMPs, that means 80AMPs can be ran continous. Would you like to know why I'm upgrading the electrical?

I was only running about 40AMPs through 2 each 20AMP circuits, but because I was maxing them out, I could feel the electrical outlets and switches pusing heat. Not just warm, but HOT! They're rated to 90 degree C, but that is pretty hot in the walls. It likely wasn't getting that hot, but I didn't want to take any chances.

Seriously, I suggest you check how much power you actual use by reading the labels on all devices that might be on at once for your sim. You'll be suprised at how much you're really using; otherwise, you'll never know if your home catches on fire because of overheating the circuits, and there are no labels left.

To get AMPs, just take the total Watts and Divide by the Voltage to get AMPs. For example- 1200watts/120volts=10AMPs; and for 1200watts/240volts=5AMPs. I'm sure you all know this, but there might be one person who doesn't, and this saves them from smelling smoke and feeling the heat...so to speak.

John
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mauriceb



Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 1051
Location: Gravenhurst, Ontario - Canada

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Thank you for helping me... Reply with quote

John Combs wrote:


I added up all the items in this room and I figured 65AMPs if everything is turned on all together. Alhtough, this includes non-sim items, but the projectors added another 3.1 AMPs each; that's 9.3 AMPs more. So, almost 70 AMPs.

John


What are you running in that room that totals 65 Amps without the projectors? That's a lot of juice so do you have a grow-op down there? Very Happy Seriously now, you are quite right in wanting to play it safe, so more capacity is always better.

You've got me wondering now about my power requirements. When I designed the house, I just asked the electrician to add split receptables in the basement for a total of 30 Amps plus the normal receptable at 15 Amps. I can't really see how the sim will consume more that 80% of 45 Amps or 36 Amps.

I guess I'll have to add everything when I'm done and see where I stand. I do feel your pain though when it comes to spending money that could have gone into the sim instead. Smile

Hope someone answers your projectors/FSX question as I will be trying my projectors soon as well and I'm sure I'll run into the same issues you are having.

Maurice
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Ivar Hestnes



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 319
Location: Flemma, Norway

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember that a power supply rated at 800w does not neccessary draw 800w.

I am running 6 computers
three projectors
2 large amplifiers
3 big power supplies, and loads of small ones.

When the sim is running and all things that consume power is running at MAX, the sim draw 8 amps at 230v.

That would be approximately 16 amps at 110v.
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XOrionFE



Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 56
Location: Sugar Grove, IL USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run two 20 amp circuits for my setup. That seems to be just fine. My projectors are on one and my 3 computers and 6 monitors on the other. No issues with heat of wiring. My wiring is all 12 guage as I originally setup this space for a workshop. You have to be really carefull on what guage you use for a given distance and amperage rating. (I am sure you know this). Using too thin of wire for a longer distance and higher amps is a recipe for disaster.


John, for the projectors I am running 1280x800 Native resolution. So in the TH2GO config it is 3840x800. No problem running Windowed mode or full screen. Be sure to check your full screen resolution settings with FSX display properties to make sure you have this resolutions selected as well. I am running off a single GTX 275 to the TH2GO Digital edition. From there I use 3 15ft DVI->HDMI cables to go to the projectors.

You may also want to check your fsx.cfg file just to make sure there is not some erroneous resolution in it somewhere.

Scott
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bluskydriver



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:47 am    Post subject: .FLT File and Immersaview Reply with quote

Hey Guys,

As you know I was stuck in "Electrical Power Land" for a while as the wiring was being upgraded. Yes, I likely over did it, but my belief is "more is better". Therefore, it was 12 each 20Amp Circuits minus 1 for going to the small shed outside.

The unique thing is I got so tired of power strips everywhere, so instead of 2-4 outlet plug-ins on the circuits and using plug-in type power strips, I went with hard wired, 12 plug-in, metal strips. All of these have be stragically placed in and around the sim. I eliminated 9 power strips in the entire room...

Anyway... The sim is in progress again and here is where I sit with another matter. The projectors are up, I did the calibration for NTHUSIM, but I am stuck with these questions:

1. As I looked on Ivar's website he has an image of 5 undocked views all nice and lined up. And, I know that would be the same if he's using 3 views. However, do you line the panels in FSX, then turn on the projectors and try to line them based on these alignments of the undocked panels, even though you do not turn on NTHUSIM first? In which case the projected image from FSX will be all curved upwards at the ends?

2. After you line up (or butt edge line up) those upward curved projected images from FSX, you then shut down FSX, start NTHUSIM, and then restart FSX? In which case, you now have a corrected image

3. I know that you must do the calculations for the .FLT file and use the Cameras CFG file. However, which is the best camera to use, Cockpit View Camera or Virtual Cockpit Camera? I used the spreadsheet program WindowMaker here:
http://home.comcast.net/~wledzian1/WindowMaker.xls
I did three views using Cockpit Camera and got the 75degree per view values, and the zoom factor of 0.453333333333.

4. Relating to the previous question, who all here has a three projector with three views going on a curved screen with TH2GO? I'd like to see of your .FLT files posted. Mainly, can you guys post the parts with the windows and cameras portions of the .FLT file?

I know Ivar you're really busy these days since joining FDS, but if you have a little time would you please post yours? I emailed you as well.

5. If you have to make adjustments with the .FLT, I know to do that in notepad and then reload FSX after each change (painstakingly slow), but after I make changes to everything "almost" lined up, I still have issues. For example, when an object is passing from one projected image to next, at the edge, say an AI plane for example. When the plane goes from center projected image to the left projected image (passing it), it's lined up top to bottom, but from front to rear you see the nose leaving from the front projector, but it then lags as it goes through or as it comes out the other side (into the left projector).

Thus, is that a lag problem that would be seen due to the procesor not being able to work it quick enough or is it a problem with zoom?

6. Finally, is anyone doing anything with edge blending besides using sol7? Is there another program that will make up for where NTHUSIM left off or left out for that matter? Something software related? It seems like a real easy matter... If there was a way to overlay an image over FSX when it's open and block out portions to adjust the gamma, brightness, contrast, color, etc. it would be awesome. Sort of like using Photoshop and changing portions of a still image(s), but in only on a realtime image of it being FSX.

By the way, thanks to all of you for the answers and suggestions throughout this process of getting my sim running. Without them, I would be totally lost...

Thanks again.

John
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bluskydriver



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:35 am    Post subject: 3 Views... Reply with quote

Scott,

I just re-read your last posting and as I did follow it with the resolutions settings already, but what I just noticed is your using a single view in full screen, is that correct. Or, are you using the three or five view approach?

If you're doing a single, full screen, how do you feel about the side projector views not being true 180 or 225? When I first setup mine I did the single view, full screen and I really didn't notice what Ivar or Nat was talking about. Then, I tried to do Ivar's setup and except for the problems mentioned above, I noticed it look much better.

The side views appeared correct and I could look out each side front window and see the wing or the last 3 feet of it. It made me feel as if I could look back as in a real plane. Although, I'd like to see one of the pilots take photos from the eyepoint level of both captain and FO seats and taking photos as far back as they can see when looking left and right from each position.

If I had those photos, I'd put them in a panoramic stitcher program for all of us to look at for reference. Hopefully, someone will volunteer or maybe a flight mechanic or someone with access can do this...

Anyway, hey Peter and Steve, if you're reading all this, I hope you guys and Ivar are cooking up something to do with the curve screen, 3 projectors, NTHUSIM, TH2GO, Immersaview, Sol7 and other items of the nature? Why? Because all the sim websites are talking or chatting about this a lot. It seems we're all reaching the same point at about the same time. So, I see FDS taking the lead in this, as FDS has done in most other areas...thank goodness!

Thanks Scott and Thanks FDS,

John
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mauriceb



Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 1051
Location: Gravenhurst, Ontario - Canada

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: .FLT File and Immersaview Reply with quote

John Combs wrote:


4. Relating to the previous question, who all here has a three projector with three views going on a curved screen with TH2GO? I'd like to see of your .FLT files posted. Mainly, can you guys post the parts with the windows and cameras portions of the .FLT file?

I know Ivar you're really busy these days since joining FDS, but if you have a little time would you please post yours? I emailed you as well.

John


I totally agree with John here. No point all of us re-inventing the wheel when setting up projectors, so it would be really nice to have a starting point by looking at the config files of those who have already done it, or is that a deep dark secret not to be shared with anyone Very Happy.

Seriously now, we know that the settings will be different and maybe very different in every case, but it would still help to see what worked for you, so can you please post the relevant files for all to see?

And besides, I know that Ivar can't be that busy now that he has practically finished his sim. What is he going to do with all his free time now that his woodworking marathon is finished... build a great pyramid or the Taj Mahal in wood? Very Happy

Thank you,

Maurice
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Ivar Hestnes



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 319
Location: Flemma, Norway

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can assure you guys that I am very busy. FDS is one of many things I spend my time on. Dont even have time to update my webpage.

I get a lot of emails about people want to duplicate my FLT files. I have stopped responding to those emails for several reasons. First, if anyone actually get to copy my FLT file, they also expect me to support it, when it does not work as they planned to. People also have different hight position of their screen, different projectors, different computer power++++. The list is endless.

So I am not posting or sharing my FLT files as those are considered experimental. I have like 20 different ones, and I never get 100% satisfied.

At this moment, there is only one method for mastering the visuals. Time. It is mandatory to spend the time to learn how it works, and for being able to modify and maintain the system. This is not a "one day" education for sure.

Many people consider me cranky since I dont share the files, or so far dont have the time for making a deep tutorial. So it is far from fun to get some of the emails I get in my inbox.... Makes you want to disappear completely sometimes. I have posted lots of information around to get people started. Other people also have done the same. I am one of few people that actually bothers to share some of the things I have done on a webpage for people to watch and learn, so I am not interested in being flamed for not configuring everyones visuals.

It is kind of interesting that most people have no issues with spending months or years on building a sim, but when it comes to visuals, everybody just wants it served on a dish.

Remember one thing. This is not about reinventing the wheel, as we all build different wheels.



One of the "coolest" emails I got sounded more or less like this:

Hi there, can you tell me exactly how you built your visuals? Configurations and everything. I know you dont have time for making a tutorial so I can do the tutorial myself as long as you give me the information I need......

Sad
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N737AG



Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 175
Location: Weston, FL, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ivar

I have been there, I have lived one of those situations, I completely understand what you say and you have got my support on this issue.

This is why I am not bothering you with emails. However, my invitation for a vacation in South Florida still stands (LOL) Laughing Laughing Laughing

Axel
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bluskydriver



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:26 am    Post subject: No Worries. Reply with quote

Ivar,

I understand what you're saying and I am sure most of us long-term guys do. We've had our share of "newbie"ville, where those that are new want or expect the "give it to me now" thing. However, I can say for myself I've put many years into this for sure.

As for the visuals, I am on week two of putting the projectors up, getting NTHUSIM going and understanding the numbering or data inside the .FLT files based on the camera and window info. If it takes me till week 52, I will do it. But, what I was asking for is just a frame of reference to see how or what I am doing compares to someone that has it working correctly for just one example. This in turn would provide a better understanding.

As I can understand your frustration about being at the top and those that expect support from you per se; however, I believe it does not help that you're a nice person that has "TMI" out there. Since your website is up with the examples and/or what others can view as suggestive that you'll help, it might be better to not post so much to reduce all the newbie request or over burdens of emails. Of course we all want to be proud of our work and show others, but sometimes showing others only brings heartache. That is why I don't post many photos or have a website in this regard.

Finally, I will not flame you nor feel ill of you, as I will get there on my own or maybe some of the other guys can put something up concerning the .FLT files. However, if someone wishes to not post it, but want to share it with me or call me at my home number, you can PM for my email and/or phone number; thereby, we don't have to share it with the world and dwell in "newbie"ville.

Thanks so much,

John
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