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New PC's and Visuals
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Howard



Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:11 am    Post subject: PC requirements Reply with quote

Hi fellas,
My sim is progressing well & it's time now for the pc's.

Could you possibly give me a spec' to build my "new" pc's please?
I have a 200 deg curved screen. haven't yet bought the projectors but will be 1920x1080's likely DVI.

*Need to build 1, 3, or 4 pc's? a little confused now. Do I need a separate pc for fsx?

* If I go the server/client route I know that's 4 needed + VRSync & Sol7
Similar to the 3xIG desc Nat showed recently.
* If I use a TH2GO instead then is it just 1 pc only needed?
However TH2GO doesn't handle the res' I'm planning.

Can someone please explain to me the reasons for & against using:
* TH2GO or
* Server/Client or a WideView setup.
* which way is likely to really show as close to a proper outside view perspective?
* What about also the view from the captain or F/O's seat. Is one system better than the other?

This is the PC Spec I'm looking at...
Am considering the Asus Rampage 3 Extreme Gene model recently released.
CPU ? Don't know enough about cpu's or how to overclock.
6gb DDR3 ram (don't think it can take DDR2)
Raptor HD 500gb or 1Tb
650w P/S
NVidia Graphics card but no idea which to use. These are the options:
http://www.nvidia.com//content/HelpMeChoose/fx2/HelpMeChoose.asp?lang=en-us

The above doesn't include the Avionics PC. That I think I have have covered. Mark (Sim-A) has given me a spec pc to run 3xBFG 9800 GT cards)

Thanks in advance.
Howard.
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melnato



Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 1087
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G'Day Howard,

Some HUGE questions here Smile

TH2Go or WideView? You know my preference. If you are set on HD projectors and higher frame rates....then WideView/Sol7 is the only option.
I have a question though...Do you have space/height for standard HD projectors?
If you plan on short-throw HD projectors, I would like to see what you find/prices.

I am totally happy with my 200FOV and perscpective, banking and pitch blend is 100%....something not easily achieved.

Asus RAMPAGE-III-GENE Intel Mainboard - 6x DDR3 / 6x Sata Raid / Gigabit Lan / LGA 1366 AND
Intel Core i7-950 / 3.06GHz / 8MB Cache / LGA1366, would be an awesome cobination.

WD Velociraptors are still my favourite. You dont need 500GB or 1TB, 150GB will do....

NVidia GTX 480 is my prefered Graphics Card,

Cheers,

Nat
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Last edited by melnato on Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ivar Hestnes



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 319
Location: Flemma, Norway

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, Nat pretty much said it here.

Single computer setup with HD projectors will kill your framerates, as you need a "undocked window" setup.

Wideview is the way to go if you are going to run HD projectors!!

Pay attention to throw ratio, and cockpit shadows when you plan your setup. Hard to get a short throw HD projector I guess. Carefully planning and a proper drawing is the key here.

Smile
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Howard



Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nat & Ivar, sorry guys for not replying some time ago it's been a tuff time.

I really appreciate your replies but I'm still suffering from confusion. First up to answer Nat's question about space for HD projectors & screen. I have about 16ft width & much the same forward/back as well. Ceiling is 10ft. Though I will be moving sometime in the not too distant future.

Anyway just want to get this straight. Since I want to run HD projectors 1080i I then must run a server/client setup, cporrect? TH2GO is Not possible for that res'. Therefore I'm just trying to look at the various options & of course cost. I'm assuming the three IG's are all running a copy of FSX?

The options I think are WideView or VRSync (with WideTraffic) for Synchronisation.
For image setup I guess the options are again WideView with either Sol7, Warpalizer or NthuSim Pro?
As you can see I am clearly confused now. What I need to know is if I'm running multiple PC's for 3 views do I need to run a server/client setup & what software needs to run on each pc?

I understand VRSync requires Widetraffic to get AI to sync. That's ok.
But I'm not sure why one might choose the differing options. I realise too that Sol7 is directed to the pro market but I still can't find the difference between it & Nthusim Pro.

Option 1.

Server Windows 7 runnning FSX & (WideView Server & Sol7, NTHusim)?
Client/IG1. Windows 7 & WideView Client & WideTraffic.
Client/IG2. As Above.
Client/IG3. As Above.

Approx' cost $ I understand Sol7 is about $4500 for a three pc setup. But if running a server/client setup do I need it on all 4 pc's?

The Nthusim is about $490 for a three projector setup but on one pc only though. So how is it used if you're running three or four pc's?

Option 2. etc.
(Avionics will be on it's own pc, Sound & other utilities on a separate pc again, so looking at 6 pc''s).

Cheers
Howard.


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melnato



Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 1087
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Anyway just want to get this straight. Since I want to run HD projectors 1080i I then must run a server/client setup, cporrect? TH2GO is Not possible for that res'. Therefore I'm just trying to look at the various options & of course cost. I'm assuming the three IG's are all running a copy of FSX?

Yes, please re-read:

http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4209

Quote:
The options I think are WideView or VRSync (with WideTraffic) for Synchronisation.

WideTraffic only works with WideView

Quote:
For image setup I guess the options are again WideView with either Sol7, Warpalizer or NthuSim Pro?
As you can see I am clearly confused now. What I need to know is if I'm running multiple PC's for 3 views do I need to run a server/client setup & what software needs to run on each pc?

Download the manual here:
http://www.wideview.it/download.htm

Quote:
I understand VRSync requires Widetraffic to get AI to sync. That's ok.
But I'm not sure why one might choose the differing options. I realise too that Sol7 is directed to the pro market but I still can't find the difference between it & Nthusim Pro.

No Blending in NThusim

Quote:
Approx' cost $ I understand Sol7 is about $4500 for a three pc setup. But if running a server/client setup do I need it on all 4 pc's?

Cost still the same. Sold per channel...ie IG

Quote:
The Nthusim is about $490 for a three projector setup but on one pc only though. So how is it used if you're running three or four pc's?

You will need three copies of NThusim Standard if you go multi-comp route...$289 each.

Regards,

Nat
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Howard



Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


thanks Nat'. That's cleared up the confusions I think & I appreciate the links.
Looks like WideView has been updated since I last used it a long while back.

Howard.

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CAVU



Joined: 05 Dec 2010
Posts: 15
Location: Cooperstown, NY

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:18 pm    Post subject: What numbers make a good projector Reply with quote

Hi guys. Just startin to think of projection system. I'm looking at a 200 or 225 FOV 3 IG system with wideview and sol7.

Does this meet the parameters of a good projector system? Should the native resolution be higher. Its 1080i compatible.

Projector Display System 0.55" Texas Instruments DLP
Native Resolution SVGA (800 x 600)
Number of Pixels 480,000
Lumens Brightness 2500 ANSI
Contrast Ratio 1500:1 Native
Aspect Ratio 4:3 Native (5:4, 16:9, 16:10 Compatible)
System NTSC, PAL, SECAM
HDTV Compatibility 720p, 1080i, 1080p
Lens System
Lens 21-23mm f/2.56-2.8
Focus/Zoom Adjusting Manual/Manual 1.1x
Lens Shift No

Features
Keystone Correction 30
Ceiling Mountable Yes
Rear Screen Projection Yes
Projection Tilt Option Yes
Input/Output Connectors
Input Terminals VGA (HD 15 Pin) x 2
S-Video x 1
Composite Video x 1
Audio (3.5mm Stereo Mini Jack) x 1
Output Terminals VGA (HD 15 Pin) x 2
Audio (3.5mm Stereo Mini Jack) x 1
Control Terminals RS-232C x 1

General
Lamp (Bulb) 220 Watts
Fan Noise 28 dbA Eco Mode
33 dbA Normal
Remote Control IR Wireless
Power Requirements 100 240 V AC, 50/60 Hz
Dimensions (WxHxD) 10.4 x 3.7 x 8.8" (264 x 94 x 223 mm)
Weight 5.07 lb (2.3 kg)
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Howard



Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi CAVU,
800x600 is way too low res. Just because a projector says it's 1080' compatible doesn't mean it displays that res' It only means it can show an image but will never be more than the native. I would personally suggest you go with 16x9 & not 4x3.

For your info' I just bought 3 x Benq SP840's for under $2k ea. They are native 1920x1080. They aren't exactly short throw lenses but they are the best out there at present, in every aspect from what I can see. My screen is 200degree, I don't think you need more than that but Nat & Ivar & others would be better qualified to answer on this.

My background is in audio visual for almost 30years so I understand a lot about projection. As far back as 1980 we were doing collimated displays for projection & have had experience in producing unique 360degree systems for touring road shows & the like.

What you need for projection are excellent black levels, more than 1500 ansi & greater than 1080' res if you want to go the HD route. Otherwise 1024x768 if you're going 4x3 is fine.

What is the model # of the projector so I can look it up? Are you using Sol7 or the NTHUSIM variety? They are two different animals.

Howard.
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CAVU



Joined: 05 Dec 2010
Posts: 15
Location: Cooperstown, NY

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got a quote from Sol7 for 3 projectors. $6000.

Ouch.

The entusim examples I've seen all have a big space between visuals. Is there not a way to butt the visuals together to eliminate the space. I understand that only Sol7 has the blending technology. What does the Enthusim plus have that the non plus doesn't?

I was thinking I could get the projectors for $1K each.
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Howard



Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus version supports up to three projectors but only does "Butt" edging.
This is suitable I think for most users, however if you want "Edge Blending" then it's Sol7 you want. Very few people as far as I can see are using Edge Blending because of the costs.

Also, it seems that most people are opting for the Digital TripleHeadToGo (TH2GO). I'm not one of them though I've used it & is an excellent product.

There is another option though, a product called Warpalizer by Universal Technologies. It's also around the same costs though.

Re the projectors, if these are 800x600 native then forget them. I wouldn't buy them even for $100.00ea. You need at minimum 1024x768 & that's 4x3 format too. Can you give me the model # of the projector? What are you using for your screen?
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CAVU



Joined: 05 Dec 2010
Posts: 15
Location: Cooperstown, NY

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Thanks for the feed back. I haven't purchased the projectors yet. I'm presnently using 6 monitors. Each of the three IG computers has dual head video cards. Their huge and take up two slots each. I think I'm going to sell them and buy cards with alot more ram and only one head. I've use TH2Go and IMHO One computer can't handle all that video.


I'm looking for an affordable projector that does a really good job on a 200FOV screen.

BTW, I noticed that NFS has a curved screen but it seems narrow. It is curved in two dimensions though and was wondering if this is a good feature.
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Howard



Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, who's NFS?
Are you planning on a flat or a curved screen?

There are many considerations to look at, one most important is the throw distance you need. Do you have a room big enough. You can get some pretty good & cheap projectors with short throw lenses.

If flat then one projector will do the job but I'm not qualified to properly answer when it comes to FOV questions. But if you're planning on using one proj' then you need the highest resolution you can afford.


What size is the screen you're planning on?

I think you mean Spherical Screen that you described. Can you provide a link to the screen you mentioned pls. Spherical screens give a little more depth of field feeling but it's not dramatic, just helps a bit. Mine is spherical but curved is what most people use.

My setup is 3x1920x1080's onto a 200 degree using edge blending but that carries a hefty price tag. If you use a curved screen you can butt the images using NTHUSM.

Will you using a Cockpit shell? If so then shadowing of the shell is another problem.
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CAVU



Joined: 05 Dec 2010
Posts: 15
Location: Cooperstown, NY

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.northernflightsim.com/

I have a room that is big enough. I'm going to build a curved screen using 8' high x 4 ft wide underlayment (thin plywood), prime it and paint with a good coating of something that is appropriate for projectors.

I'm thinking of tilting it so the surface is square to the projector but that adds to the construction design significantly. If the spherical is good enough effect, I'll do it.

The cab is another project. Again NFS has some nice shells and frames. I have no idea on the cost, they don't publish their prices on their site. Whats up with that anyway. I do want a cab though and the projectors will have to raised high enough not to interfer, thus the question about tilting the screen.

What kind of computers / video cards do use to drive those visuals. I take it you use wideview also.
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Ivar Hestnes



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 319
Location: Flemma, Norway

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

800x600 is too low resolution for sure. For a 200 and above FOV, it will get very pixelated. You should aim for projectors with as high resolution as possible. And widescreen is recommended. It will give you a chance for bigger FOV compared to a 4:3. Also if you think about edge blending, widescreen is the way to go as you need the projector-images to overlap each other to utilize the blending with a good result.

Buy the best resolution you can get within reasonable money. Today it is 16:10 projectors with 1280x800. And go for DLP as the black level for night flights is important Smile
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Tomlin



Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 1008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ivar, very good follow-up info there. Also, happy birthday if you didnt see it over at CB's. Mine was the 4th Smile
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