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Which Board For MIP? (Resolved)
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DeckerZ



Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 33
Location: Belfast

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:58 pm    Post subject: Which Board For MIP? (Resolved) Reply with quote

Hey guys, I am wanting to start wiring up some MIP inputs and outputs, like LED's and landing gear lever and LED's. So now I am wondering which would be the best card to go for. Kit is only for the MIP a present so I would like as much of the MIP functionality as possible from the card.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
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vidarf



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Narvik, Norway

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sys3x would do just fine, but I would go for the sys4x. Simply because it offers more inputs. It depends on how many functions you want to implement (many of the functions is not needed since they aren't simulated).

AFDS: 4/5 inputs (connecting both sides in parallel for the inputs), depending on whether your AFDS panel has dual colored lights (not needed) or you use FDS parts

Light test: 2 inputs
Auto brake panel: 18 inputs
Gear lever: 2 inputs
F/O side: GPWS inhibit panel: 4 inputs (only one is really needed, the test button)

The glare shield might also need attention. 3 inputs, if you connect both sides in parallel. The EFIS/MCP is not taken into account, since you should use modules for that, not build them.

The display selectors and the nose wheel steering switch is not used.

All the annunciators should be interfaced for the light test function. Eye candy. Smile

This gives you 30 inputs at the minimum. Outputs are covered with any card.

Personally, I would use the SYS4x card in order to connect all the switches, and to have some inputs available for other functions related to the simulator.
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DeckerZ



Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 33
Location: Belfast

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for putting it in nice order and listing inputs. You have certainly given me a lot to consider when buying a card. Do woring diagrams or instructions come with the cards?
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melnato



Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 1087
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Auto brake panel: 18 inputs


Sorry to jump in Vidarf..but how did you get 18 inputs?

Without N1 and Speed Ref knobs, I used 8 inputs... Smile

Nat
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pcos
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:39 am    Post subject: Manual Reply with quote

You will find the SYS board manual linked on the product page in the description. One you wire one led you can do all LEDs.. Same for switches.
Hundreds of these boards in the field and likely the simplest to set up. The software does 95% of the programming side of things.
Peter
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vidarf



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Narvik, Norway

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WITH N1 and speed ref knobs, there's 18. Smile

N1 set: 3
SPD ref: 6
MFD: 2
autobrake: 5
fuel flow: 2

The N1 set and SPD ref are optional, as they have no use without an encoder for the outer knob. But better plan for the future, I think.

As i said, you need to decide which functions you want to implement. 9 inputs for the auto brake panel will cover auto brake, fuel flow and MFD. The fuel flow switch has three settings: reset - rate - used, and the MFD selector panel has 2 switches.

The wiring diagram is not needed. The ONLY thing you need to do, is to connect the inputs and the outputs in groups of 8. One common wire that goes from switch to switch (or annunciator to annunciator), and 8 wires going to their respective switches or outputs:

SWITCHES:
1: common (black wire)
2: switch 1 (red wire)
3: switch 2 (red wire)
4: switch 3 (red wire)
5: switch 4 (red wire)
6: switch 5 (red wire)
7: switch 6 (red wire)
8: switch 7 (red wire)
9: switch 8 (red wire)

OUTPUTS:
1: common (black wire)
2: annunciator 1 (white wire)
3: annunciator 2 (white wire)
4: annunciator 3 (white wire)
5: annunciator 4 (white wire)
6: annunciator 5 (white wire)
7: annunciator 6 (white wire)
8: annunciator 7 (white wire)
9: annunciator 8 (white wire)

NOTAM!!! The colors of the wires may differ. I own the first version of the SYS 1-3 cards, and they came with white wires for outputs and red for inputs.

I also recommend you to read the user manual:
http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/pcupload/FDS-SYS-MAN-V5.pdf

More info on the links here:
http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/list_products.php?id=22

An example on how to wire up your panels:


(more on this available at my website).

It is hard to see, but check out the lower 4 switches and the two right above them. A black wire runs between all the switches (and moves up to the rotary selector for cross feed, then to another switch to the left). One white wire goes to each switch.
When I was connecting the wires, I paid NO attention to which wire was next in line. I grabbed one, soldered it to a switch then moved on to the next.
The beauty of the InterfaceIT software lies here. You select "locate input mode" for the SYS card you're working on (multiple cards will be listed as separate items in the software), then flip a switch. The software then highlights the correct input, and you can assign that input via XML files downloadable within the software, or you can use a number of other options. FSUIPC interacting, internal variables within the InterfaceIT software and so on.

The only time you need to pay attention to which wire goes where, would be for any dual-state annunciators. They are - to my knowledge - only located in the overhead. This topic has been covered on this forum before, and is also mentioned on my website.

That's a short description of the beauty of the InterfaceIT + Sys(xx) cards.

The wire bundles that comes with the SYS cards are rather short, so you'll have to extend them. I would recommend that you buy spools of single-cored wires, the stiff kind. They are very easy to work with, and you can bend them into shape. Not only does it tidy up, but it is actually a lot easier to solder since the wires will stay in place (more or less). You really need 3 hands when soldering: one to hold the soldering iron, one to hold the solder wire, and one to hold the thing you're soldering in place.

When extending wires, get yourself a "helping hand". It's a gizmo with two grips and a magnifying glass. It holds the wires together while you're soldering them (and here is another point where stiff wires is a must-have). When soldered, place a piece of shrink-tube over the connection, heat with a lighter (a small torch for burning sugar on creme brulée is great!) - but be careful so you don't burn the shrink-tube.

You'll need a LOT of wire if you plan to wire up a cockpit, so get big spools. I think my spools are 100 meters (328 feet). Cost me about $10 USD extra compared to 50 meters. Worth it.
Note: I ended up using white wires all over because I forgot to order a red spool. I also used other colors elsewhere since I had a lot of wire lying around from other projects. I would recommend that you stick to the same color as provided from FDS.

Oh, and buy LOADS of zip-ties! They keep everything tidy. Zip up each wire bundle, then zip the bundles together. In the end, you'll just need some tomato sauce to complete a spaghetti dinner:



Cool


I could go on and on, but you'll find a LOT of info on the 'net about all this. You have done one of the most important steps correctly, though: you decided to go for the FDS SYS boards! They are EXTREMELY simple to use, and definitively worth the extra cost compared to other options (which is very little anyway).

I just wish that FDS could release small cards for encoders and LED displays as well. That way, I could get the N1 set and SPD REF knobs up and running MUCH easier... Smile
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DeckerZ



Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 33
Location: Belfast

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: FDS-SYS4X High Capacity 64In/128Out Card it is Reply with quote

Hey guys thanks for all the good advice, I'm getting hungry for some good old wiring so I ordered the FDS-SYS4X High Capacity 64In/128Out Card. Had a look at the manual and as Pete says, 95% is done by the software. Shouldn't be too difficult to get my head round and it looks like many people are using them, so help shouldn't be far (I hope). Thanks again.
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jackpilot
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Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 1010
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MHO:
I do not use solid core wiring.
Unless you are extra careful when stripping the end, even a light dent in the metal will make it break off the first time you bend it.
Just my 2¢
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vidarf



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Narvik, Norway

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True. Or you get some sense and buy a wire stripper! Smile

I _only_ use this type:



Set the screw slightly wider than the core, grab and pull. So far, I've _never_ experienced a broken end on the wire.
I've tried other types, but none of them worked good enough.

"good tools do half the work. I bought two..." Cool
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DeckerZ



Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 33
Location: Belfast

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:12 pm    Post subject: Solid Core Wire Reply with quote

I often avoided solid core wire as it was too rigid and inflexible. I guess if it is going to be used in a fairly permanent setting and can be tied along tracks, or bundles o wired and cable tied it would be best. What are the best attributed for such wire, like weighting and resistance, or is there anything I need to think about when buying some wire in?
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Jetcos



Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 1212
Location: Newmarket,Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We use and suggest 22-24 AWG
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Wantolinez



Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vidarf wrote:
The sys3x would do just fine, but I would go for the sys4x. Simply because it offers more inputs. It depends on how many functions you want to implement (many of the functions is not needed since they aren't simulated).

AFDS: 4/5 inputs (connecting both sides in parallel for the inputs), depending on whether your AFDS panel has dual colored lights (not needed) or you use FDS parts

Light test: 2 inputs
Auto brake panel: 18 inputs
Gear lever: 2 inputs
F/O side: GPWS inhibit panel: 4 inputs (only one is really needed, the test button)

The glare shield might also need attention. 3 inputs, if you connect both sides in parallel. The EFIS/MCP is not taken into account, since you should use modules for that, not build them.

The display selectors and the nose wheel steering switch is not used.

All the annunciators should be interfaced for the light test function. Eye candy. Smile

This gives you 30 inputs at the minimum. Outputs are covered with any card.

Personally, I would use the SYS4x card in order to connect all the switches, and to have some inputs available for other functions related to the simulator.


I am a little confused. In my count, I have the following:
Auto brake panel total: 21

N1 set: 4
Speed ref: 7
Fluel flow: 2
Auto brake:6
Eng and sys: 2

At this point, I am wirinig all the positions but have not look those with the sys avionics files.

I did not know that the display selectors and the nose wheel steering were not used at all.

Do I wire the glare inputs togheter (Captain and FO)? In my count, there were 3 inputs + 3 inputs.

Thanks for your help.
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pcos
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 2260

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would question why anyone is configuring the Spd/N1 Ref units.... Only used to manually insert speed bugs on the PDF when there is a dual CDU failure. My understanding.....
My common advice is for people to fly a flight and notate what they are using. Using PMDG on your desktop sim is a great starting point... Take notes. You'll be surprised how much of the 737 is for "abnormal" procedures.
Many folks will say "I want it 100% functional", I always start asking "why?" questions. Focus your budget on things that deliver true "simulation value" I suggest. You can easily afford a better visual system by watching where you spend... You can always go back and wire SPD/N1 Ref units later just in case your CDUs fail Smile
Peter
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Wantolinez



Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points Peter.
How about the the glareshield inputs?

Thanks for your help.
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pcos
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 2260

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We wire both glare wings... Fully. Highly used items for sure.
Push To Recall.. Caution/Fire... Must haves..
The real key when building a sim is getting it fly able and that means core items in place and functional.
Since most of the guys here do not have deadlines or firm budgets... You add as you go.
I just hate watching people getting caught up with the "Lavatory Light needs to work" mentality and neglecting key things...
Spend good money on good things.. Avionics software... Huge one... These are all museum pieces until the software is brought online...!
Peter
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