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FDS-B737NG-PRO-MX-MIPMAIN-10 -- electronics included?
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OmniAtlas



Joined: 06 Jul 2012
Posts: 124
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:06 am    Post subject: FDS-B737NG-PRO-MX-MIPMAIN-10 -- electronics included? Reply with quote

Hi there -- I was originally interested in the jetmax but It has become apparent to me now that it doesn't include back lighted panels (IBL).

I have looked at the full MIP frame available by FDS at http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/prod_info.php?id=534&f=set&imgid=168 which includes IBL panels, but how about electronics and/or the switches?

The website says to "Please click on the small image to the left" for more details about the included package but I can't seem to find that link.

Does the FDS-B737NG-PRO-MX-MIPMAIN-10 include all the necessary switches, electronics and wiring (minus the glareshield/wing, CDU, and LCD) to make a complete MIP panel or do I have to buy all the other necessary parts separately?
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pcos
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please read the description carefully as all the included elements are clearly listed. As with anything in life, if it is not listed as included it is not. I do have the Main Hardware list linked directly above the section of parts you mention.
Peter
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pcos
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing to note folks.....
If we ship an MIP, we use a specific carton for that.
Because of the way freight companies charge, they will often charge based on volume (they cube the carton and assign a weight that works better for them of course!).
The carton we use for the MIP was also designed to fit the full glare and CDU bay inside. Because of the Cubing approach the freight people use it does not cost anything more to ship all three sections.
We created the MIP/GlareCdu Bay package to promote this, we also priced this as a bundle.
Separately, the three sections run $3199. In the bundle we offer for $3k. You save $200 and also save a fortune in freight. Shipping each section on its own would add a lot of extra costs that can easily be avoided.
http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/prod_info.php?id=740
Peter
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OmniAtlas



Joined: 06 Jul 2012
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pcos wrote:
One thing to note folks.....
We created the MIP/GlareCdu Bay package to promote this, we also priced this as a bundle.
Separately, the three sections run $3199. In the bundle we offer for $3k. You save $200 and also save a fortune in freight. Shipping each section on its own would add a lot of extra costs that can easily be avoided.
http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/prod_info.php?id=740
Peter


Hi Peter -- yes I saw the MIP/Glare/CDU package, but I'm afraid it will be easier pill to swallow (and to explain to my wife Smile if the parts were bought separately -- I certainly don't intend to add a CDU until a much later stage, and will most likely have a 2-4 year plan to complete the whole project.
Can you please provide me a shipping estimate for the FDS-B737NG-PRO-MX-MIPMAIN-10 to Australia?

I would also appreciate if you could point me to the right direction on how to wire up the electronics, including the IBL -- or would this forum be the best place for advice?

Thanks again.
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pcos
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was referring to the CDU Bay... Not the CDU device tht gets mounted in the CDU Bay. Have a look at the two products and you will u derstand the Bundle I created. We need to switch to email at this point please.
For interfacing... Check the interface forum of course but also review the SYS board manual linked on the interfaceIT page. It will be as clear as mud until you have parts in front of you but, once you fire up one LED or Switch, you can do them all. We are here to guide so no worries.
The SYS board are super simple to set up.

Peter
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OmniAtlas



Joined: 06 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pcos wrote:
I was referring to the CDU Bay... Not the CDU device tht gets mounted in the CDU Bay. Have a look at the two products and you will u derstand the Bundle I created. We need to switch to email at this point please.

Peter


Yes, no CDU until a later stage, so no CDU-bay required atm. I will get in touch with you via e-mail; I hope you feel better and are recovering!

Didn't expect you to be responding to support messages over the weekend either!
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pcos
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfect. Thanks Ben.
Peter
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N737AG



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben, please allow me to cut in to this discussion and tell you, from own experience, that as soon as you unpack the MIP you are going to desperately want the CDU bay.

The MIP is a great piece of equipment, but it will not look like a cockpit until it is sitting on top of the CDU bay.

So, if my experience is worth it, get it now with the MIP. You will be very very Very Happy


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vidarf



Joined: 12 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, get the whole shebang at once. My MIP has stood covered in a corner for some years because I lacked the CDU bay and the glare shield. Still don't have the CDU bay, but that one I'm hell bent on building myself. Smile

I know it is a cost issue, but trust me: the shipping can be insane! Shipping + VAT will be almost 50% of the unit cost on my glare shield alone!

If I'd do it over again, I would get the MIP + CDU bay and the glare shield all at once, plus a SYS card to get things going. With that, you could actually get a working setup with just one computer and two monitors! PMDG 737 with undocked PFD and ND, landing view up front + undocked MCP.
You could fly for years that way, slowly gathering parts and building stuff!
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OmniAtlas



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the advice, I will take that into consideration -- I will have to budget more appropriately if that is the direction I will be taking.

I hope to purchase an MCP (CPFlight?) + EFIS first then before making the jump to the MIP. Would you guys recommend the ones produced by FDS (also excellent, but I heard, without the solenoid switch?).

Vidar, thank you for the 'builder noobs' advice on your website Smile

Did you all decide to buy your electronics and switches direct from FDS, or get these 'electronic kits' sold by other 3rd party providers? I would also like to get an honest answer if the FDS-SYS I/O card would be the way to go.

Thanks again for all the help.

Ben
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vidarf



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll give you my opinion, and for a moment disregard that this forum belongs to FDS (sort of peeing in other peoples pool now):

FDS SYS cards!!!! Or Opencockpits if you WANT to make things difficult. Very Happy
The SYS cards makes interfacing a breeze. There's a lot written on it on this forum (you can check my posts, I've written quite a bit on the subject here).
You do NOT want to spend a lot of time getting your setup up and running. This is where the SYS cards comes into play.
Please note that the SYS cards do NOT support any encoders. You will need other solutions for the very few areas that you might want that kind of functionality. On the MIP, the only two are the N1 and SPEED knobs (the outer knob; the inner ones are normal rotary selectors that works with the SYS cards). You really do not need those, at least not for many years.

Forget all other interface solutions out there. The SYS cards can be used by anyone, without any knowledge of electronics (okay, you'll need to know a few things on a very limited areas on the overhead, but that's childs play!). As long as you are capable of soldering two wires together (check the "interfacing" article on my website), you're good to go.
No electronics. No programming. No power supply. A complete overhead setup takes a couple of hours, tops. I did it in about 1.5 hours. Switches AND annunciators. While consuming 3 cups of coffee and a cigarette (outside, of course).

As for MCP/EFIS - though one. I sold my old FDS MCP which was a GREAT device, and purchased the CP Flight PRO MCP. Very happy with it. I cannot give you any advice regarding the Jetmax MCP, but it looks very good. The reason I went the CP Flight route was:
1. A/T solenoid switch
2. bank selector
3. speed / alt intervention switches
4. more functions on the EFIS
5. more realistic looking knobs

However, I would not hesitate to buy a FDS device!!! The switches on the old MCP was better than on the CP Flight unit, and the encoders was much more firm. The quality of FDS parts are second to none.

IMPORTANT POINT: The color on the panels differs from the different manufacturers. RAL7011 is the "norm" out there, but the actual color might vary. I have five different manufacturer's panels - and one made by a fellow builder - and they ALL are slightly different. Not much, but noticeable.
Stick to one manufacturer. And currently, my choice is FDS. I am extremely happy with my FDS MIP, and the level of service you'll get here is over the top! That can CERTAINLY not be said about most of the "parts pushers" out there. Trust me on this one.



As for switches: you could probably source them locally, but why not buy a complete kit with everything you need? Not just the switches, but also knobs, switch guards in correct color...
EDIT: Forgot an important point here. If you get the parts from the company that makes your panels, they are guaranteed to fit... Wink


You read my "builder noobs" article. It is written "tongue in cheek", but the message is dead serious.


Get a flyable setup as soon as possible! Forget the overhead, the pedestal, the throttle quadrant, the seats... Get a MIP with glare shield and the CDU bay. Get the MCP and EFIS of your choice (buy both EFIS modules! I HAD to sell my FDS glare setup since I bought only one EFIS and the unit is discontinued. Would not have done that otherwise!)
Next, get the FMC. Start with one if budget is tight. You'll use it a LOT.

With that setup, you'll be able to enjoy flying a cockpit from the beginning. I haven't flown mine a second yet! But soon, I'll get the glare unit from FDS and then I'm up and running! Best part? I have a complete overhead and a TQ (that needs a lot of hours before it'll work), so I'm hitting the ground running!


I apologize for posting stuff about other manufacturers in the FDS forum, but I hope this post can help people in their decisions.
I do not want to discuss other manufacturers goodies here, or compare different products more than I already have.
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OmniAtlas



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for such a comprehensive post.

I hope to digest your posts in these forums and on your website in the next few days then Smile FDS-SYS boards it seems will be the way to go.

I have just listened to the Podcast interview of Peter by mycockpit.org; very insightful!

I would like to buy a complete electronic kit with knobs and switches from FDS but I can't seem to find it on their website? It seems everything is sold separately on the 'Hardware' section of their store?
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pcos
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Few things....
The JetMax product should not really be blended with our FDS line as they are two different customer groups... Totally different.
Many people see the discontinued MCP from five years ago and are not clear on what we did to replace.
If you see our FBPTs and the Dstd..... You can see the Pro-MX MCP listed. Clearly we make one...
I don't offer it on its own.
Simply not a Mass produced product and difficult to meet the demand we have. So... While not 100% available.. I will ask a few customers that own to feel free to comment on this product....
You can see our Pro-MX 777 and 747 MCP to get a clear view on the calibre... They are high end in every aspect.
MCPs... I have every intention of bringing new product to our lie, every year...
I just finalized our next product plan and as I see production ready parts I will formally announce....
For those that have been around, we have clearly been the leaders in making sure that we continually re-invest back into the company. New product is the biggest part of that.

Peter
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OmniAtlas wrote:
Thank you for such a comprehensive post.

I hope to digest your posts in these forums and on your website in the next few days then Smile FDS-SYS boards it seems will be the way to go.

I have just listened to the Podcast interview of Peter by mycockpit.org; very insightful!

I would like to buy a complete electronic kit with knobs and switches from FDS but I can't seem to find it on their website? It seems everything is sold separately on the 'Hardware' section of their store?


Please look carefully at each section of product. In every section, just above the headr I list available hardware. Please don't miss it with no picture. Each hardware pack is downloadable. I simply have a price sheet that details exactly what you need. You can buy as you choose. We offer you the same parts there that we use in our full trainers.....

That is the clearest advantage of FDS..... Want a full trainer? High fidelity? We show that with our panoramic pictures. That is the end result with our product.
Please folks, look closely read the descriptions a few times, I am super careful to be as clear as possible. I never want anyone to assume or think something was included.... We detail everything. Saves disappointment every time. But... You have to be willing to review with detail. Many people gloss over the info and email asking about what we have detailed.
Best example was today, customer emailng to ask if our CDU was metal.... I list it... I show it on the page, I even describe it on the video we shot to promote it...
Glad to help and answer questions anytime of course.... My preference EFIS to help with the complex things though!
Peter
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vidarf



Joined: 12 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stand corrected, Peter! The Pro-MX MCP and EFIS looks GOOD! Even the little thingy on the side of the FD switch! If I'd only asked... Embarassed

For an old-timer in this hobby, it is interesting to see the progress from the NOVA panel time! The best proof of Peter's statement about reinvesting into the products...

Peter, you should put up a small image gallery of the different series you've made over the years! Smile

BTW: I love this photo:



That's my MIP with IBL panels. No need for complicated backlighting (EL sheets, anyone remember those?), worrying about light bleeding...
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