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SimBrief Profiles

 
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belisba



Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:03 pm    Post subject: SimBrief Profiles Reply with quote

I want to see what others might be experiencing using SimBrief. Specifically, if anyone has had greater accuracy in fuel burn predictions, weights, fuel load, etc. by using or developing a profile other than the 737-800 generic profile offered by SimBrief.

I created a profile that I believe matches the Sim-A aircraft.cfg settings to see if it provides any further accuracy but to be honest, results still vary. The link below comes from SmBriefs profile "share" feature:

https://www.simbrief.com/system/dispatch.php?sharefleet=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

Yes, really long link, but it does work. I am curious as to your thoughts on whether or not the SimBrief generic 737-800 profile is as good as any or has someone found a better profile they would like to share to use in SimBrief.

Brad-Texas
P3D ver 4.5.12
SA Software Version 1.964
FSUIPC ver 5.153
MIP- JetMax-737SKTQ
MCP-EFIS- JetMax-737MCP-EFIS
Overhead -JetMax-737OH1
Throttle Quadrant - JetMax-737TQ
Radio/NAV JetMax-NAVCOMM1
Transponder- JetMax-737-XPNDR
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MichaelYSSY



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 694
Location: Sydney - Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Brad

I use SimBrief for flight planning and their standard 737-800 profile.
I normally do about 1 hour flight time duration flights (aprox 450nm)

On average I end up with a difference of 500Kg of fuel burn between actual and SimBrief estimated. (actual burn is LESS than estimated).

Is that your experience with SimBrief and Actual as well?

Cheers
Michael
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Sim-Avionics v1.96
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belisba



Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Michael,

Can't say for sure I've had quite that level of accuracy, but that might be more about my SimBrief Dispatch Option settings. There are Dispatch Option settings like Cont Fuel, Reserve Fuel, CI, Passengers, Cargo, ZFW, Altitude, that when selecting AUTO, will produce different results on the Flight Plan than say, altering these setting manually.

Maybe I'm making this too hard by messing around with SimBrief too much and trying to align to Sim-A aircraft.cfg, and even align to the settings in TOPCAT using the Sim-A profile for that utility.

Thought I'd get the discussion going to see if anyone has had any fruit in aligning these values, profiles, etc. that make a difference... Smile

Perhaps the answer is to just use the SimBrief default profile and turn AUTO on for all SimBrief options... Question
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MichaelYSSY



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 694
Location: Sydney - Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad

So I don't use all the AUTO options on SimBrief
Usually set my own CI Reserve Fuel and a few other things.

Generally only two things come in to play with fuel burn

TAXI fuel
FLIGHT fuel

Taxi is sort of simple as in SimBrief you set taxi time for DEP and ARR airports and it's just a time x fuel flow calculation.

Flight Fuel is a little more complicated and consists of Climb - Cruise - Descent (includes Approach and Arrival).
I Believe that due to FSX/P3D restrictions this is the one that is difficult to calculate and bring in line with real aircraft calculations.

I don't think that FSX/P3D will ever look into this issue but I am satisfied with the difference between SimBrief and Sim-Avionics model.

Cheers
Michael
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Banananav



Joined: 08 Oct 2015
Posts: 84
Location: 5nm West of RAF Cranwell

PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Brad
Please see my thread on 737-800 flight planning.
To quickly summarise, Sim-Brief is based on Lido which is industry standard so I wouldn’t tinker with it.
I use a Parasitic Drag Scalar of 1.27 which gives me a far more accurate CDA performance and cruise power settings, and a Fuel Flow Scalar of 0.99.
Over 17 flights since August, with trip lengths from 1 to 3 hrs and a range of ZFWs, and a CI of 30 throughout, I have consistently had predicted and actual hourly fuel burns within 2%, and often 1% of each other.
Comparing hourly fuel burn allows you to do real-world short-cuts etc but still have a valid comparison.
Where there is a problem is taxi and take-off fuel. S-B uses 25 lbs/min taxi fuel but, because of the friction issue with P3d, the S-A 738 burns 45 lbs/min, so, as Mike says, you need to correct that manually. There is also the extra fuel burned at full power during take-off, about 200 lbs.
So I just estimate the taxi time and set it in S-B, add 20 lbs/min and round up the fuel load to the next full 100 lbs, plus another 100 lbs - works a treat.
Incidentally, this is just how I used to do this as an RAF FJ nav.
Rgds
Chris
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Chris Finn

Jetmax 737-800 & TQ
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belisba



Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Gentlemen, you've been helpful. Good to know I'm not the only one out there tinkering with values to get the most out of the sim. But, that's part of the fun in it afterall!

Brad-Texas
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MichaelYSSY



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 694
Location: Sydney - Australia

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey

If anyone is interested......

I'm using standard Sim Avionics 737 800 aircraft
No mods to fuel flow or drag

Set FUEL BIAS in SimBrief to M12

On a 400nm flight, total fuel usage was pretty much on the mark with SimBrief estimate.

Cheers
Michael
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Banananav



Joined: 08 Oct 2015
Posts: 84
Location: 5nm West of RAF Cranwell

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Michael

12% is a massive error.

A quick rule of thumb is, at ISA conditions and a reasonably high landing weight, you should see a fuel burn of 6000 lbs per hour.

Yours

Chris
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Chris Finn

Jetmax 737-800 & TQ
P3D 4.5 HotFix2
S-A 1.964
FSUIPC 5.152
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MichaelYSSY



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 694
Location: Sydney - Australia

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Chris

Only trying to line up the fuel usage without editing the aircraft files.
As you know, there are limitations within FS. (also not sure how accurate SimBrief is)

What I offered was a alternative IF anyone is interested.

There may be a better solution in the new MFS2020, yo never know.

Cheers
Michael
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Banananav



Joined: 08 Oct 2015
Posts: 84
Location: 5nm West of RAF Cranwell

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROGER
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Chris Finn

Jetmax 737-800 & TQ
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kand



Joined: 03 Feb 2016
Posts: 204
Location: Buckinghamshire, UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing to bear in mind here, a 00 bias will only apply to a brand new aircraft with new engines. This would be comparable to a perfect airfile which in theory is simply not possible under the current FSX/ESP runtime due to the "issues" with the physics modelling of the FSX environment, there is always a compromise

When I was an active GA flyer, one of my instructors became a 757 FO with a major UK charter. I was amazed to hear that the 1st thing he was tasked with as an after take off item was to wind the rudder trim to make the bird fly straight!! this was because the airframe was so bent a positive rudder was needed to counter the turning moment. The drag this would have created would have been significant, and many older aircraft probably suffer this now.

As time passes, the airframe becomes less slick and engines wear and waste more fuel so the bias increases. My mate is a head of nav for a major airline, so I will get some real life examples of what bias is used of older airframes and post back here for reference.

Re FS2020.... I have been on the program since Nov and the new airfile structure is very interesting as is the environment.... for the better
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kand



Joined: 03 Feb 2016
Posts: 204
Location: Buckinghamshire, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So to close my input out

777 fleet for major UK airline ranges from 1.01 (newest) to 1.05 oldest, so all in good nick!

some of the 767s were at 8.4 before scrapping as the maximum

The interesting part is that a brand new aircraft is not 0, that is a theoretically perfect airframe without paint and 100% efficient engines. Upon delivery they are already in +1 territory
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