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Curved Screen Built, Need Projectors!!!
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bluskydriver



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:24 am    Post subject: Curved Screen Built, Need Projectors!!! Reply with quote

Hey Everyone,

Got the curved screen up, but need a place to get the projectors from. It seems that there are no BenQ MP782 ST in stock anywhere...even with BenQ USA, they're out.

Anyone got any ideas where to get 3 of these?

John
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Tomlin



Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 1008

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,

There are none right now from what Im hearing. Read this story here for a seemingly suitable alternative:

http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=1003.msg7706;topicseen#new
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Eric Tomlin
Learjet 45

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www.Hangar45.net
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jackpilot
Site Admin


Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 1048
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Call Maurice and get two with one stone Wink !!!
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Jack
Full B737-800 DSTD/Sim-Avionics P3d4
ALL FDS & OEMs (+custom TQ)
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bluskydriver



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:51 am    Post subject: Checking It... Reply with quote

Hi Eric and Jack,

I forgot about that discussion on cockpitbuilders (thanks Eric). Tell you something, after Ivar ordered his MP782 ST's BenQ stop making them. I guess they knew it would be to hard to keep up with demand of the sim pilots who would want them.

Seriously, I've been emailing Eric at BenQ USA and he says, according to BenQ HQ, they're no longer in production. Therefore, I started looking at other projectors like Scott did with the Mitsubishi EW230U-ST models. These are pretty similar to the MP782ST's and the prices are the same as well; NewEgg for $989.

Yes, Maurice does have two and I'm not sure where he stole them from...uh, okay bought them...lol. Still, I don't think he's going to give them up. If anything he'll be looking for the third. I seen one listed as a Refurb, but that's it.

Anyone else got any ideas? Keeping the price in the $1,000 range per unit.


Last edited by bluskydriver on Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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josephvance



Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Posts: 30
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:18 am    Post subject: Try the Dell Reply with quote

I went with the Dell 300 model and it worked out great. Short throw, same resolution as the BenQ. Bought a couple of months ago for $799 each.
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bluskydriver



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:32 am    Post subject: How did you mount it? Reply with quote

Thanks Joseph, but how did you mount this projector; was it floor, table or ceiling. Also, did you get three of them for curve screen setup?

John
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josephvance



Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Posts: 30
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,

I mounted them on the ceiling with a 24' curved screen. Ended up being much easier than I thought and am thrilled with the results. Using software to warp the images, the distance and placement of the projectors can be estimated loosely and you don't really have to sweat the details too much.

Here's a photo if it helps:
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N737AG



Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 175
Location: Weston, FL, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joseph :

Could you post an image of the projection on the screen ? What image warping software are you using ?

This is a hot topic and if there is another projector option different from BenQ, then a new set of possibilities might be opening up for us (even from the financial standpoint)

With a good set of pictures (or possible even video) our fellow pilots Nat and Ivar could also give their expert opinion on these Dell's.

Thanks


Axel
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bluskydriver



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:52 am    Post subject: Widths? Reply with quote

Thanks Joseph for posting the photo.

Since you're using a 24ft screen, are you getting 142" (I think that this is the amount) of width for each projector?

Also, do you by chance have a website and/or a youtube video with your sim running? It'd be nice to watch something that would compare to Ivar's videos. Thus, giving a good representation of this projector model that you have.

I am looking at this model further.

John
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bluskydriver



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:54 am    Post subject: comparing projectors Reply with quote

In case anyone wants to know, I am using www.projectorcentral.com for comparsions. It also has a good projector calculator on the site...
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josephvance



Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Posts: 30
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:03 am    Post subject: Projectors Reply with quote

John,

You have the total dimensions right, but due to the position of the projector lense and minor adjustments made in the warping software, each screen isn't exactly the same size.

I don't have a video or site at the moment but will see if I can shoot a quick one for you. My setup uses a zoomed-out forward view at 50% zoom, which is different than Ivar's distinct 5-view setup.

This results in a bit of skewing at the edges but high framerates on a single FSX PC. It might be difficult to compare what I have done with Ivar since we've taken two different approaches. His is probably more visually accurate.

Joe
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Jetcos



Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 1248
Location: Newmarket,Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great topic, replies and information. Nice to see everyone working on this and looking forward to more pictures. Nice work Joe.

Keep us posted on the projectors you come up with John.
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Ivar Hestnes



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 319
Location: Flemma, Norway

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Dell S300 looks like a good choice to me. It has a throw ratio of 0.521, compared to the BenQ that has a 0.6 ratio, which means positioning of these projectors will be slightly easier as you can have like 3-5 cm space between them.

Dont know about the image quality of these compared to the BenQ though.

But they are DLP and thats good for night-flight!!!

Smile
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josephvance



Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Posts: 30
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:16 am    Post subject: Projectors Reply with quote

Guys, please find some more pics below to give you an idea of the outside view.

Though my screen is 24' total, I only use about 18' for projection. I decided to move my projectors closer to the screen and give up some total width for a sharper image. I will likely end up blacking out my shell's aft-most windows since they are superfluous with my setup. With these short-throw DLP projectors, there's a distance where your gains in screen size are outweighed by the pixelization of the image. This is a personal preference and you'll know it when you hit it. Having a sharper, 120 degree view was more important to me than a full-wrap around. Besides, using the zoomed-out forward view for display seems to prohibit you from getting a realistic 180 degree view anyway. Once you play around with the equipment, you'll get the idea.

That said, I have taken a trial and error approach to this setup. In two months, I've tried 3 different screens and projector configurations. This is the one that offers me, in my opinion, the best balance of a) immersion, b) resolution and c) performance and d) cost-effectiveness.

In experimentation, I "simulated" the placement of my projectors on the ceiling by placing them on a table in front of the screens. I then moved them around on the table until I got the screen size and sharpness I wanted. Then, I hung a plumb-bob from the ceiling over the center of each projector, marked the spot on the ceiling and got out the drill. Minor adjustments only after that, which can be accomplished by rotating their mounts. Nthusim is the software for warping.

Another important, (off-topic) thing that needs to be considered here is power consumption. Count your amps. Projectors are energy hungry. Add computers and monitors and you can overload a common 15-amp circuit pretty quickly.

Pics:

http://www.echospan.com/photos/img_1141.jpg
http://www.echospan.com/photos/img_1142.jpg
http://www.echospan.com/photos/img_1143.jpg
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bluskydriver



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:24 am    Post subject: comparing projectors Reply with quote

Ivar,

Thank you so much for your input. I've been sitting here for the last hour comparing the Dell S300W, the Mitsubishi EW230u-ST and the BenQ MP782 ST, and this is what I found:

Dell S300W $792-$891:
WXGA1280x800 resolution DLP, 2200 ANSI lumens, 2400:1 contrast, 6.8 lbs
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Dell-S300W.htm

Mitsubishi EW230u-ST $989-$1,004:
WXGA 1280x800 resolution DLP, 2500 ANSI lumens, 2000:1 contrast, 6.2 lbs
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mitsubishi-EW230U-ST.htm

BenQ MP782 ST $1,199 (out of stock):
WXGA 1280x800 resolution DLP, 2500 ANSI lumens, 2400:1 contrast, 7.7 lbs
http://www.projectorcentral.com/BenQ-MP782_ST.htm

As shown, the Dell and Benq models compare with contrasts of 2400:1, and the Dell has a lower value of 2200 ANSI lumens. The Mitsubishi has the equal 2500 ANSI lumens, but a contrast of 2,000:1 when compared to the Benq model.

Throw Ratio:
Dell-0.52, f/2.80
Mitsubishi-0.49
BenQ-0.5 : 1 (95"@ 1m)

Throw Distance:
Dell-6'2" equals 89" vertical 168" diagonal 142" horizontal
Mitsubishi-6'2" equals 95" vertical 179" diagonal 152" horizontal
BenQ-6'2" equals 95" vertical 179" diagonal 152" horizontal

All three are really comparable, but since Joe is using his slightly different, does that extra 11" diagonal and 10" horziontal make a that much difference? I assume that is nearly 30" of width 10"x3 lost right? Also, I see that Dell has 6" of vertical loss when all distance are 6'2".

Finally, I hope that others can use this info to help them decide, for me, it's just making it harder... I would think that because Scott has the Mitsubishi he could post on how he feels about the brightness versus the contrast. Since the lower value of 2,000:1 would not give as good of blacks like the higher Benq and Dell does. However, Joe could say how he feels about the brightness and contrast. His brightness would be lower, but his darks would appear more black and not likely to be washed out...

Edit: Nevermind Joe, you posted before I did; thank you for providing the information and pics.

John


Last edited by bluskydriver on Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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